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	<title>Comments on: Body fat part 4: Philosophical thoughts on body fat</title>
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		<title>By: Mistress Krista</title>
		<link>http://www.stumptuous.com/body-fat-part-4-philosophical-thoughts-on-body-fat/comment-page-1#comment-2422</link>
		<dc:creator>Mistress Krista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-2422</guid>
		<description>D: A very insightful and compassionate take on the subject. Have you read Steve Hayes&#039; material?
http://bigthink.com/stevenhayes/ideas
I just listened to a couple of podcasts he did with the nutrition folks at Yale U. It&#039;s about halfway down the page here:
http://www.yaleruddcenter.org/podcasts.aspx

He talks about the ways in which we must face and endure discomfort, in a compassionate and curious way, in order to make changes in our lives. In order to make change we must confront a great deal of discomfort (physical and psychological), and the source of that discomfort has been with us probably our entire lives. For most people the discomfort is simply too much to bear, or they have not been adequately prepared or supported in dealing with it. When others around us change, it also prompts that discomfort.

Your point about the binary is a great one. To me, any community of &quot;support&quot; is dangerous when it polices identities and choices. When a person feels shame around making choices that they feel avoid death or improve quality of life, that says that their &quot;support&quot; community isn&#039;t really very supportive.

There seems to be no &quot;good&quot; (i.e. culturally approved yet also psychically healthy) way to say/feel that one would like to change one&#039;s body AND that one has the power to do so in a non-destructive fashion. In a sense, coming to terms with this identity is a necessary step, but the question is where do we go from there? The danger of owning this identity in a culturally defiant way is that then one often forecloses the possibility of modifying it -- and also that one cannot tolerate modification/change from one&#039;s environment, including other people.

The way through appears (in my experience) to be to understand the physiological basis of why we are who and what we are, and that while the picture is complex, we have a lot of potential for self-determination. If we understand ourselves as making &quot;survival choices&quot; in a certain environment, and being configured to respond in a certain way given certain conditions, BUT also having the power to revise those choices and conditions, and understanding this all with &quot;compassionate curiosity&quot;, then we can spend a lot less time being angry and anxious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D: A very insightful and compassionate take on the subject. Have you read Steve Hayes&#8217; material?<br />
<a href="http://bigthink.com/stevenhayes/ideas" rel="nofollow">http://bigthink.com/stevenhayes/ideas</a><br />
I just listened to a couple of podcasts he did with the nutrition folks at Yale U. It&#8217;s about halfway down the page here:<br />
<a href="http://www.yaleruddcenter.org/podcasts.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.yaleruddcenter.org/podcasts.aspx</a></p>
<p>He talks about the ways in which we must face and endure discomfort, in a compassionate and curious way, in order to make changes in our lives. In order to make change we must confront a great deal of discomfort (physical and psychological), and the source of that discomfort has been with us probably our entire lives. For most people the discomfort is simply too much to bear, or they have not been adequately prepared or supported in dealing with it. When others around us change, it also prompts that discomfort.</p>
<p>Your point about the binary is a great one. To me, any community of &#8220;support&#8221; is dangerous when it polices identities and choices. When a person feels shame around making choices that they feel avoid death or improve quality of life, that says that their &#8220;support&#8221; community isn&#8217;t really very supportive.</p>
<p>There seems to be no &#8220;good&#8221; (i.e. culturally approved yet also psychically healthy) way to say/feel that one would like to change one&#8217;s body AND that one has the power to do so in a non-destructive fashion. In a sense, coming to terms with this identity is a necessary step, but the question is where do we go from there? The danger of owning this identity in a culturally defiant way is that then one often forecloses the possibility of modifying it &#8212; and also that one cannot tolerate modification/change from one&#8217;s environment, including other people.</p>
<p>The way through appears (in my experience) to be to understand the physiological basis of why we are who and what we are, and that while the picture is complex, we have a lot of potential for self-determination. If we understand ourselves as making &#8220;survival choices&#8221; in a certain environment, and being configured to respond in a certain way given certain conditions, BUT also having the power to revise those choices and conditions, and understanding this all with &#8220;compassionate curiosity&#8221;, then we can spend a lot less time being angry and anxious.</p>
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		<title>By: D</title>
		<link>http://www.stumptuous.com/body-fat-part-4-philosophical-thoughts-on-body-fat/comment-page-1#comment-2420</link>
		<dc:creator>D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 05:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-2420</guid>
		<description>In response to G who said &quot;It seems that the people in my life who are in their late 40s, 50s,+, LIKED me heavier, and seem to enjoy-or accept-being heavy themselves(despite problems like diabetes, achy joints,hypertension, etc). It was completely the opposite of what I was expecting.&quot;

I know exactly what you are talking about. Over the last year I&#039;ve lost about 20lbs, unintentionally, just through better eating and weight training. I&#039;ve been low-key about it-- its been a natural evolution. My very overweight mom, has been not supportive. She even goes so far as to openly mock me when I choose healthier foods while visiting her, as though I were making a superior moral choice and decrying her lack of ethics. 

However, my dad (also fat), complimented me on it, said he was proud, etc. 

The way I rationalize it is that my mom has had to &quot;own&quot; her fatness. When you are fat and a woman, you&#039;re not an individual you&#039;re a &quot;fat woman&quot;-- defective sexual goods in the eyes of society. So what do you do with that? You either hate yourself, or own that identity. There doesn&#039;t seem to be a rational third choice if you are going to believe that you are a &quot;fat woman&quot; not a woman who is fat. So, you challenge the assumption of fat woman=defective rather than rejecting the whole premise as absurd and sexist. From that you get online fat support groups, where bloggers have to apologize and say with shame that they are saving their lives by having gastric-bypass. 

Loosing weight, in my mom&#039;s eyes, is a rejection of her and part of the identity she has created for her self. 

In reality, I&#039;d just prefer the salad, thanks. 

(and thanks stumptuous for being a sounding board for some post-holiday-family gathering stress)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to G who said &#8220;It seems that the people in my life who are in their late 40s, 50s,+, LIKED me heavier, and seem to enjoy-or accept-being heavy themselves(despite problems like diabetes, achy joints,hypertension, etc). It was completely the opposite of what I was expecting.&#8221;</p>
<p>I know exactly what you are talking about. Over the last year I&#8217;ve lost about 20lbs, unintentionally, just through better eating and weight training. I&#8217;ve been low-key about it&#8211; its been a natural evolution. My very overweight mom, has been not supportive. She even goes so far as to openly mock me when I choose healthier foods while visiting her, as though I were making a superior moral choice and decrying her lack of ethics. </p>
<p>However, my dad (also fat), complimented me on it, said he was proud, etc. </p>
<p>The way I rationalize it is that my mom has had to &#8220;own&#8221; her fatness. When you are fat and a woman, you&#8217;re not an individual you&#8217;re a &#8220;fat woman&#8221;&#8211; defective sexual goods in the eyes of society. So what do you do with that? You either hate yourself, or own that identity. There doesn&#8217;t seem to be a rational third choice if you are going to believe that you are a &#8220;fat woman&#8221; not a woman who is fat. So, you challenge the assumption of fat woman=defective rather than rejecting the whole premise as absurd and sexist. From that you get online fat support groups, where bloggers have to apologize and say with shame that they are saving their lives by having gastric-bypass. </p>
<p>Loosing weight, in my mom&#8217;s eyes, is a rejection of her and part of the identity she has created for her self. </p>
<p>In reality, I&#8217;d just prefer the salad, thanks. </p>
<p>(and thanks stumptuous for being a sounding board for some post-holiday-family gathering stress)</p>
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		<title>By: A</title>
		<link>http://www.stumptuous.com/body-fat-part-4-philosophical-thoughts-on-body-fat/comment-page-1#comment-2295</link>
		<dc:creator>A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 00:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-2295</guid>
		<description>Why do I keep seeing so many comments about cellulite on this web site? It&#039;s a real let-down to try and read something about womens&#039; bodies in terms of how strong, healthy, well-functioning etc they are and then see all the snide comments about lumpy thighs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do I keep seeing so many comments about cellulite on this web site? It&#8217;s a real let-down to try and read something about womens&#8217; bodies in terms of how strong, healthy, well-functioning etc they are and then see all the snide comments about lumpy thighs.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca Knight</title>
		<link>http://www.stumptuous.com/body-fat-part-4-philosophical-thoughts-on-body-fat/comment-page-1#comment-796</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 23:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-796</guid>
		<description>Hi, there,

I loved the comparisons in these articles between someone who loses bodyfat and maintains more LBM and someone who gets &quot;skinny fat&quot; and loses muscle.  That&#039;s what I love about this site--instead of lying to us about &quot;toning&quot; and saying we should all look like Paris Hilton, we are learning to be strong and pare down excess body fat the smart way (if we want to, that is!)  

Has anyone else ever seen one of those stick-thin models turn around and seen lumpy bumps on their bikini-clad back ends?  This is why we do squats.  So we don&#039;t look like those &quot;thin&quot; people ;).

-Becca</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, there,</p>
<p>I loved the comparisons in these articles between someone who loses bodyfat and maintains more LBM and someone who gets &#8220;skinny fat&#8221; and loses muscle.  That&#8217;s what I love about this site&#8211;instead of lying to us about &#8220;toning&#8221; and saying we should all look like Paris Hilton, we are learning to be strong and pare down excess body fat the smart way (if we want to, that is!)  </p>
<p>Has anyone else ever seen one of those stick-thin models turn around and seen lumpy bumps on their bikini-clad back ends?  This is why we do squats.  So we don&#8217;t look like those &#8220;thin&#8221; people ;).</p>
<p>-Becca</p>
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		<title>By: Tiffany</title>
		<link>http://www.stumptuous.com/body-fat-part-4-philosophical-thoughts-on-body-fat/comment-page-1#comment-514</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiffany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-514</guid>
		<description>Hello,

I really liked the comparison between getting a hair cut and losing fat.  It really makes me realize that I shouldn&#039;t take it so seriously when I gain a little and feel like the world will come to an end.  Sometimes I go waaaaay too long without a hair cut, but it can still be cut after all.  If I can gain the weight, then surely I can lose it, you would think a full time yoyo dieter like myself would realize that after so many ups and downs.

I am what most will consider &quot;thinish&quot; and so I am criticized if I mention the word fat and most annoyingly &quot;work out&quot;.  I have mentioned to more than one person that I would like to get back in the gym and get into shape and they honestly said &quot;but you don&#039;t need to work out.&quot;  WTF?!  Everyone needs to excersize their body!  I really feel like giving them a little wake up slap in the face for saying something so ridiculous!

Anyway, thanks for the insight!

Tiff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I really liked the comparison between getting a hair cut and losing fat.  It really makes me realize that I shouldn&#8217;t take it so seriously when I gain a little and feel like the world will come to an end.  Sometimes I go waaaaay too long without a hair cut, but it can still be cut after all.  If I can gain the weight, then surely I can lose it, you would think a full time yoyo dieter like myself would realize that after so many ups and downs.</p>
<p>I am what most will consider &#8220;thinish&#8221; and so I am criticized if I mention the word fat and most annoyingly &#8220;work out&#8221;.  I have mentioned to more than one person that I would like to get back in the gym and get into shape and they honestly said &#8220;but you don&#8217;t need to work out.&#8221;  WTF?!  Everyone needs to excersize their body!  I really feel like giving them a little wake up slap in the face for saying something so ridiculous!</p>
<p>Anyway, thanks for the insight!</p>
<p>Tiff</p>
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		<title>By: Mistress Krista</title>
		<link>http://www.stumptuous.com/body-fat-part-4-philosophical-thoughts-on-body-fat/comment-page-1#comment-463</link>
		<dc:creator>Mistress Krista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-463</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t worry about how things will turn out. Just get into really good shape and the rest will take care of itself. And read the rest of this site!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t worry about how things will turn out. Just get into really good shape and the rest will take care of itself. And read the rest of this site!</p>
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		<title>By: Monique</title>
		<link>http://www.stumptuous.com/body-fat-part-4-philosophical-thoughts-on-body-fat/comment-page-1#comment-446</link>
		<dc:creator>Monique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 17:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-446</guid>
		<description>Hi, I love your site. I just started going to the gym last week. This is the first time I&#039;ve been serious about fitness since I stopped gymnastics at 13. I have given birth to 4 children.I&#039;m 25 5&#039;4 and weigh 163.I&#039;m trying to keep this short but that might not be possible. I live in Mississippi, and personal trainers in this area are kind of sad and don&#039;t really know what the hell they are talking about. I am extremely serious about getting strong and losing excess fat, but at the same time I want to keep some of my softness, if that makes sense.Any tips?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I love your site. I just started going to the gym last week. This is the first time I&#8217;ve been serious about fitness since I stopped gymnastics at 13. I have given birth to 4 children.I&#8217;m 25 5&#8242;4 and weigh 163.I&#8217;m trying to keep this short but that might not be possible. I live in Mississippi, and personal trainers in this area are kind of sad and don&#8217;t really know what the hell they are talking about. I am extremely serious about getting strong and losing excess fat, but at the same time I want to keep some of my softness, if that makes sense.Any tips?</p>
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		<title>By: Mistress Krista</title>
		<link>http://www.stumptuous.com/body-fat-part-4-philosophical-thoughts-on-body-fat/comment-page-1#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>Mistress Krista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 03:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-166</guid>
		<description>Absolutely -- people are uncomfortable with things that are different, whether that&#039;s family norms, local norms, cultural norms, whatever. And when YOU change, people around you may interpret it as a comment on THEM. You may enjoy this piece:
http://www.stumptuous.com/we-hate-her</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely &#8212; people are uncomfortable with things that are different, whether that&#8217;s family norms, local norms, cultural norms, whatever. And when YOU change, people around you may interpret it as a comment on THEM. You may enjoy this piece:<br />
<a href="http://www.stumptuous.com/we-hate-her" rel="nofollow">http://www.stumptuous.com/we-hate-her</a></p>
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		<title>By: G</title>
		<link>http://www.stumptuous.com/body-fat-part-4-philosophical-thoughts-on-body-fat/comment-page-1#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 22:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-164</guid>
		<description>I have been maintaining a 50 pound weight loss for a while now. I started out in August 2007 at about 190, at 5&#039;7. I began eating only natural foods, completely cut out fast food PERIOD, and made sure I ate enough times during the day so I wasn&#039;t starving myself. I&#039;m a vegetarian who eats dairy and occasionally eats fish.I also did light workouts and lots of yoga (my favorite). I was stunned at some family comments I received... &quot;you&#039;re too thin&quot; &quot;why are you doing this?&quot; &quot;you need to stop losing weight&quot;.  I live in Houston, supposedly one of the fattest cities. I don&#039;t look abnormal. I weigh 138 right now and have for quite some time. It seems that the people in my life who are in their late 40s, 50s,+, LIKED me heavier, and seem to enjoy-or accept-being heavy themselves(despite problems like diabetes, achy joints,hypertension, etc). It was completely the opposite of what I was expecting. It was becoming embarrassing at gatherings when people would make a big deal about it. I thought I was alone in people acting weird towards the person who&#039;s lost weight, but it&#039;s nice to see I&#039;m not. I really like this site. I especially enjoy the foods list. I&#039;m someone who likes to really study nutrients and our body&#039;s processes in using them. Do you think that stigmas associated with losing weight can sometimes be regional??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been maintaining a 50 pound weight loss for a while now. I started out in August 2007 at about 190, at 5&#8242;7. I began eating only natural foods, completely cut out fast food PERIOD, and made sure I ate enough times during the day so I wasn&#8217;t starving myself. I&#8217;m a vegetarian who eats dairy and occasionally eats fish.I also did light workouts and lots of yoga (my favorite). I was stunned at some family comments I received&#8230; &#8220;you&#8217;re too thin&#8221; &#8220;why are you doing this?&#8221; &#8220;you need to stop losing weight&#8221;.  I live in Houston, supposedly one of the fattest cities. I don&#8217;t look abnormal. I weigh 138 right now and have for quite some time. It seems that the people in my life who are in their late 40s, 50s,+, LIKED me heavier, and seem to enjoy-or accept-being heavy themselves(despite problems like diabetes, achy joints,hypertension, etc). It was completely the opposite of what I was expecting. It was becoming embarrassing at gatherings when people would make a big deal about it. I thought I was alone in people acting weird towards the person who&#8217;s lost weight, but it&#8217;s nice to see I&#8217;m not. I really like this site. I especially enjoy the foods list. I&#8217;m someone who likes to really study nutrients and our body&#8217;s processes in using them. Do you think that stigmas associated with losing weight can sometimes be regional??</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.stumptuous.com/body-fat-part-4-philosophical-thoughts-on-body-fat/comment-page-1#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-139</guid>
		<description>This piece hints at a problem I&#039;ve seen lately -- people going too far in the opposite direction and declaring that weight loss should only be undertaken for &quot;correct&quot; reasons. If you&#039;re going to eat well and exercise, they say, it &lt;i&gt;must&lt;/i&gt; be for health reasons alone, and weight loss should be nothing but an irrelevant side effect. To care at all about how it makes you look is to betray the women&#039;s movement, or something. I&#039;ve seen women admit to starting workout programs with actual embarrassment, always following up the shameful confession with &quot;but I&#039;m not doing it to lose weight, I&#039;m doing it for my health.&quot;

This annoys me because, as you put it, losing body fat shouldn&#039;t be morally different from getting a haircut -- which means it isn&#039;t virtuous, but it isn&#039;t shameful either. We shouldn&#039;t have to make disclaimers about our intentions. 

Then again, maybe I&#039;m a little defensive because my main motive is to look better in jeans. Hey, if vanity keeps me going to the gym, it can&#039;t be all bad, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This piece hints at a problem I&#8217;ve seen lately &#8212; people going too far in the opposite direction and declaring that weight loss should only be undertaken for &#8220;correct&#8221; reasons. If you&#8217;re going to eat well and exercise, they say, it <i>must</i> be for health reasons alone, and weight loss should be nothing but an irrelevant side effect. To care at all about how it makes you look is to betray the women&#8217;s movement, or something. I&#8217;ve seen women admit to starting workout programs with actual embarrassment, always following up the shameful confession with &#8220;but I&#8217;m not doing it to lose weight, I&#8217;m doing it for my health.&#8221;</p>
<p>This annoys me because, as you put it, losing body fat shouldn&#8217;t be morally different from getting a haircut &#8212; which means it isn&#8217;t virtuous, but it isn&#8217;t shameful either. We shouldn&#8217;t have to make disclaimers about our intentions. </p>
<p>Then again, maybe I&#8217;m a little defensive because my main motive is to look better in jeans. Hey, if vanity keeps me going to the gym, it can&#8217;t be all bad, right?</p>
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